Software Engineering RS Media

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Dradts
Dradts's picture

It would be great to have a Wiki online, where everybody interested in helping could add or edit stuff.

milw
milw's picture

If we ask, maybe we could get some kind of Wiki functionality here on RoboCommunity... I like the rendering idea- been toying with that for a bit. Would you be able to work with .x3d models? X3D has some support for humanoid figures, I haven't looked into it closely but it might fit the bill for viewing, rendering and interacting with the 3d RS model.

cheers- Scott 

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

The Cylon said:

I think its better for robosapien in the long run if this kind of information is freely and easily  accesible.

 

 

 Parts of me agree, and parts of me say knowledge should be earned.

As I mentioned previously, the CMS system (drupal) that powers my website supports colabrative creation (one of the many reasons I chose it).

I also have been working on filling out the various sections, though since its with my notes, which are mostly meaningless and largely indecypherable to pretty much anyone else, I haven't published them just yet.

Hows this

milw
milw's picture

Looking very nice, Nocturnal. Now it becomes clearer, why the thing takes so long to boot! I just signed up for a login, thx!

cheers- Scott 

The Cylon
The Cylon's picture

Nocturnal, Excellent dude!

In terms of the knowledge should be earned, matter that is a very valid point. Many times if the knowledge is not learned then it is not valued. But that being said, sometimes the problem solving effort should be decomposed and distributed in such a way that not everybody requires a complete understanding of  all of the knowledge for each segment of a solution

Sometimes only portions of knowledge from one part of the solution are necessary for one to provide the complete solution to another part of the problem. For instance, the knowledge of how to gain root access to RS Media (awesome job on your part!) yields other pieces of knowledge that will be useful in providing an alternative to the RS Media Suite. While the complete knowledge of root access is extremely valuable, it is not necessary in its entirety for shell programming. (Sorry for all the verbage here!)

All that to say that sometimes sharing knowledge with people that didn't necessarily earn it will benefit the greater good because those people can sometimes take that knowledge and greatly enhance it with other knowledge that the original knowledge source hasn't yet earned or may never earn (usually because differences in fields of expertise or focus)

So it is a two edged sword. Yes freely available, accessible knowledge can be devalued and abused by the unworthy :-), but there are always good people with decent intentions who will do the right thing and that's ultimately how humanity moves forward.

You never know what out little efforts here will lead to. Maybe nothing, but maybe everything. History is funny that way....Cool

LawnBoy
LawnBoy's picture

Hmmm, no posts in almost 3 months, is this project dead?  I'm considering buying the RSM specifically to program it. Has anyone figured out what all the shell commands and arguments are?

 

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

Apparently, since nobody but me seems to have written anything. The shell commands are mostly self explainitory.

LawnBoy
LawnBoy's picture

I think I've tripped over my semantic lisp... 

What I mean is, the RSM software creates a shell file containing a list of calls to executables and passes arguments to those executables. Is there even a partial list of what the executables do and the arguments they accept?

And just how granular is the control at this level? Can I request that an arm be raised to 75% of range, or is this just macro editing (raise arm, lower arm, dance, etc)?

I mean, I can just buy a V2 and shove commands at its IR for half the price. Does the RSM gain me anything other than not having to mess with the IR (besides the multimedia fluff)? 

I have read the threads here and elsewhere about using java, but that seems to have died on the vine as well... Besides I just hate java (no offence intended to the intrepid java coders out there).

 If I can achieve actual progammatic control through shell scripts (as opposed to simply scripting macros), I'd be willing to attempt a PERL-tk based interface that would run on win*, *nix, and OSX...

  Thx for the reply.

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

The commands are all named in a fairly descriptive fashion, most are shell scripts themselves, the ones that aren't usually provide a brief syntax when called without any arguments. I know what they all are, I know what almost all of them do.

You can order the a joint to move to the precision of the sensor. The wrists for example, have a 2 bit sensor, so there are only 4 positions you can order it to move to. While the shoulders have pots for sensors, so you order them to move to 22 different positions.

I also hate Java, thats why I'm programming him in C. 

MrScott
MrScott's picture

So the joints can be commanded to go to a limited number of positions. That is goodness. I gather it's done by the encoders and pots and a DC motor. No servos involved. That means it might not "hold" that position.

Can the position of the joints be polled? You need a body aware bot to have any hope of having it retry events that might not go as planned.

 It reminds me of the old Hero 1 robots. They knew how far the drive wheels rotated, but had no clue as to whether they were spinning their wheels are making progress.  Programming one to drive through a complex shape was iffy, at best.

LawnBoy
LawnBoy's picture

Quote Nocturnal: "You can order the a joint to move to the precision of the sensor."

Excellent!  This will be my xmas present to myself (the temptation to do an Eric Cartman personality is overwhelming). 

Thanks very much for the info!

 

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

No, he doesn't attempt to hold a position once he reaches it, which makes sense in a toy (but not an industrial robot). He also only attempts to move to the position for about 5 seconds before he gives up, which again makes sense in a toy.

In theory it might be possible to poll the joints, but I haven't discovered a way, and WowWee has never exactly been forthcoming with technical details.

RobosapienV2-4mem8
RobosapienV2-4mem8's picture

Keep up the good work guys, I'm no programmer as Nocturnal knows, But I look on with interest and admire those that do know programming. If I could fully program ALL the robots that I have built I would  be on cloud 9.

THETINMAM
THETINMAM's picture

look guys , the work you are doing is great . But what is needed right now....!!!! is a downloadble

idiot gide to factory reset of rs media (complet with file and were to put them and what the folders are called.

i got my RS chrismas 2007 on new years day it will not load personalitys ....................

i no that  Nocturnal has help with this in the past..........but i could not follow the all the steps.

if any one who could put  all on one rs reboot disk i would buy it on e-bay for £10

think about for me .................pease

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

THETINMAM said: if any one who could put  all on one rs reboot disk i would buy it on e-bay for £10

Things are rarely that simple.

TikaC
TikaC's picture

Just wanted to let folks know I have been given an account on Nocturnal's site (thank you again) and have updated the Memory and CPU areas of the documentation. I plan to work a bit here and there filling things in if/when I discover things, in an effort to help build up the docs. This was a great idea. Thank you to "The Cylon" and Nocturnal for making it happen. :)

Talisman68
Talisman68's picture

Any more on this post? I'm more a hardware guy and could help with maybe a new hardware board to work on the RSM to control everything plus add new sensors or things. I'm still trying to learn programming and really enjoy these posts.
I've been looking at Nocturnal's site and it is the most comprehensive i've seen. (very good job!) Anyway I'll keep looking for new information on the innerworkings of the RSM.

The Cylon
The Cylon's picture

Yea, I'm still exploring the midp and Java interface programming and a few different takes on the shell interface to RSM.

Me and a fellow programmer are trying to develop a more portable and powerful
media suite. One that runs in multiple operating system environments.

Also we are trying to build a open gl direct manipulation interface for RSM.

The
Current suite does not allow the RSM to interact with his environment,
and the playback feature just plays back the movements as the robot
stands in place (for the most part)

We're building a virtual 3D
world that the Robot can move in and a few simple ball and block
objects that it can interact with. The goal is to really try to let you
program RSM in the virtual world and save that to a java or shell script
and then upload it to the robot and have it all match. (Any new hardware that could improve precision would be great!!!!)

This is a slow brutal process though. building the 3d mesh for RSM is a !@#$%
tying
the RS< mesh to Open GL is a !@#$%, and because the accuracy of the
commands going to RSM is fuzzy (ahem....) it makes the whole process a
!@#$% but... we're having fun. As soon as we have something that is
respectible enough to show in public we will upload the whole thing to
this site.

Right now though the code is more problem than it would be worth for anyone else to have screw around withFoot in mouth

I wish we had more time to devote to the project, but its that little thing called 'work' that keeps getting in the way.

 

 

Santa Matt
Santa Matt's picture

I have not chimed in on this thread, most of my comments have been on the
http://www.robocommunity.com/forum/thread/15084/Programming-RSMEDIA/?page=3
thread. But I have made some progress that would seem applicable to this thread also. I'll quote a bit of my other post"
"My small one page of robot information is located at: http://home.comcast.net/~mhowe41/Robots/robotics.htm It is a compilation of what I was able to discern and what Nocturnal has figured out. (Thanks again Nocturnal) Also on this page you will find a link to download my first alpha quality macro and bodycon editor. It should work on all windows platforms."
With in a couple of days I should have the next release that will include the ability to create personalities. I will upload it here also.

Santa Matt

TikaC
TikaC's picture

Santa Matt - Thanks! This is very good summary of Nocturnal's info too. I have linked to that page on my RS Media page (as I mentioned in the other thread). I'm going to play around with those at some point.

altwolf
altwolf's picture

hey Cylon! Just noticed your comment about "building the 3d mesh for RSM is a !@#$%". Did you know that you can steal the RSmedia 3d model from the RSmedia suite? It is not super detailed, but it is fine for the job.

I don't currently have the Suite installed, so I can't check what file format the file is, but I THINK it was just a .x file which is easy to import into a 3d app -3Dstudio Max, Maya, or Softimage XSI, etc. From there you can save it out to whatever format you want.

The Cylon
The Cylon's picture

altwolf said:
hey Cylon! Just noticed your comment about "building the 3d mesh for
RSM is a !@#$%". Did you know that you can steal the RSmedia 3d model
from the RSmedia suite? It is not super detailed, but it is fine for
the job.
I don't currently have the Suite installed, so I can't check what file
format the file is, but I THINK it was just a .x file which is easy to
import into a 3d app -3Dstudio Max, Maya, or Softimage XSI, etc. From
there you can save it out to whatever format you want.

Wow!  didn't know that.  We're working with
blender for Linux.  We'll have to check that out.  But
ultimately we convert the mesh we're developing in BLENDER to VRML and
then manipulate that file using openGL and  QT.  We want the
end product to be able to run as open source on any platform.  We
also designing the virtual world in Blender and exporting it again to
VRML.  But it is a !@#$%  ,  we'll definitely have to
check out our RS Media suite disk to see what can be reused.  

 Thanx 

altwolf
altwolf's picture

Since the other day when I posted that message, I imported the .X file of RSmedia and have been working it over to make it look better. You can have a copy when I'm done if you like.

What sort of polycount are you looking at for your rsmedia model?

The Cylon
The Cylon's picture

altwolf said:
Since the other day when I posted that message, I imported the .X file
of RSmedia and have been working it over to make it look better. You
can have a copy when I'm done if you like.
What sort of polycount are you looking at for your rsmedia model?

I don't know what you mean by polycount..  that would
probably be something that our  graphic's artists knows.  I
more on  VRML/OPEN GL /C++/QT programming part.  I did some
of the blender work , but  my partner did /does the lion's share.
    Of course we would be interested in checking your mesh
out.  Can it import into Blender? 

Donnie Darko
Donnie Darko's picture

hello there everyone

just got a very important question at least 4 my self, is it anyway 2 upgrade the rsmedia v1 firmware to v2 without the serial hack coz i wont be able 2 find that where i live, so if there anyway with just the usb port and the sd card ?!!

Donnie Darko
Donnie Darko's picture

and also, i got a problem, each time i connect my rsm to the pc ( windows 7 )and it shows as a storage mass everytime i open it it takes like seconds and close again, it keeps restarting as if im putting the usb and remove it, even the autorun keeps restarting every seconds again and again, can any1 help ???

idrum289
idrum289's picture

Maybe the USB cable is broken or the USB port itself. What happens when you plug in any other USB device?

Donnie Darko
Donnie Darko's picture

it works just fine the usb cable coz i tried another one and the same problem was there and the usb ports r working just fine 2!!

Donnie Darko
Donnie Darko's picture

guys i really need help here, i tried 2 upgrade my es media to v2 but ofcaurse faild coz i got not serial hack, anyway since then even after i got its firnware and got it back like it was, 1 thing still nomatter wut i do doesnt change, like i said in previous, when i attache it 2 usb it keeps do wut i said be4, i really need help !!

TikaC
TikaC's picture

First, the v1 to v2 upgrade will NOT work without the serial port hack. Right now it's impossible.

Secondly, you mentioned you have Windows 7. It might be that the drivers aren't working in Windows 7. Can you try it on a computer with an earlier version of Windows (Vista or XP)?

Also, did you install the RS Media Drivers from the CD-ROM that comes with the robot? If so, what drivers (Win9x or XP/2000)? You should choose the XP/2000 drivers when given a choice.

Or are you using the drivers from the Development Kit? The drivers in the Development kit were only tested with Windows XP and Vista, and may not work in Windows 7 (we don't have anyone to test them and I have no idea how Windows 7 does it's USB driver right now). Also the development kit drivers are solely for use with a serial port console (not serial hack) and thus also will not work for upgrading your RSMedia or accessing the SD card in the RS Media.

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