What is USB Net Setting?

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TikaC
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What is USB Net Setting?

I can't find anything in the manual about it but in the options, there's a USB Net setting that is on and off. I have to experiment with it but anyone know what that is about or have any clues on it?

Wonder if that would get me into the brain??

ED-209
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Simple you can network with your USB similar to your COM ports. It works on RSMEDIA I tried it on mine when piping commands. Learn linux and all will be clear.

TikaC
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I know linux very well. I'm a LAMP administrator at a web hosting company.

I didn't know it was using a USB port as a com port of sorts. Like direct cable connection or something, it sounds like.

I haven't really had time to really dig into that further though. Just too much going on with the holidays, work, etc. I'll have to check into that idea.

Nocturnal
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It installs a usb->serial module into the kernel, and then attempts to setup a ppp link over the connection. I seem to recall that there were drivers required on the windows side (though I could be wrong). I never got around to trying it under linux.

TikaC
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@Nocturnal - In Windows, one MIGHT have to install the PPP drivers, yes. In Linux as well. I say MIGHT because way back when, PPP drivers were installed by default for dial-up users. Now with broadband so common, later versions of OSs may not have them installed by default but include them in the distribution for those that need/want it.

@crmfightr - I am hoping this would mean no need to hack the port. I haven't opened up Nyx yet so I don't know if the cable is there or not. If so, it would just mean hacking up a USB - other-end-of-ribbon-cable item, cutting a hole and mounting the USB port. Then it's plug in and use.

From what ED-209 is saying, it sounds like the serial connection is also connected to the same USB port that the bot's interal memory is. But technically I don't know how that would work if they soldered a USB port to the flash memory like a USB stick type device. So it would only be connected to that memory and nothing else. And thus USB Net would have to have a separate USB port. But from what ED-209 is saying, it does both jobs?

I have made a note to check on that at some point and find out more.

BTW, Nocturnal, you have in your RS Media Developer's Guide a space for Memory but not link to it (http://www.evosapien.com/robosapien-hack/nocturnal2/node/784). I found that without an SD card, his internal memory for storage of games, personalities, music, etc. appears to be 64MB (Item 1.2). Also for Processor, didn't you point out in one of the other docs the processor is an ARM CPU? Just curious. I would love to see this document expanded eventually and do thank you for your work on that site. VERY valuable info there!

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

Actually, I was thinking drivers for the usb->serial link.

Your thinking wrong, whats attached to the RS Media's USB port is the ARM CPU, all the functions are handled with software. One bit turns it into a pseudo mass storage device, another bit turns it into a serial port. It all comes down to which bit of software is currently running. It's also used when loading disk images onto the RS Media (as a pseudo mass storage / ram disk).

Even with a ppp link (or usb->serial link) if there is nothing listening for incoming connections, its not going to help you, and I'm pretty certain by default, there is nothing listening on the link (not counting pppd).

If you search around, you might find the original discussion that the RS Media Developer's Guide came out of. It was not my idea, I did not create the outline (though I did modify it a bit), and I never had any intention of (or desire to) writing the entire thing. If you want to see it completed, feel free to contribute something.

TikaC
TikaC's picture

Nocturnal - Thanks for that info! If pppd is listening I would have thought they would have (or should have) build some kind of even rather crude telnet server but I can see why they didn't. Not much space in there for one, I guess. Not a secure one. Also I guess they don't want those who buy the bot for a toy to get ideas and ruin it while under warranty, not knowing what they are doing.

I'm still going to try and see what is going on. At some point even opening the bot and seeing what is there to work with serial-port wise. Maybe at some point I may have to try your hack. We'll see. Someone from here told me in email that North American versions have the cable already soldered in. So I'll have to see if mine does.

I did see the discussions about the documentation. I will have to make an account and see if I can give a hand on whatever I find out on my own as well. I'd be glad to help out whatever I'm able to. :)

TikaC
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Ok, I've got an account and signed up, but don't know where to put the CPU and memory thing? I've posted it above so if you want to add it to the docs, please feel free.

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

Mainly it's because the RS Media was never intended to have networking, so there are no network services. Its to do with the Java SDK and such (JaveOne), that networking was added. If you search around, you might be able to find some of the discussions about it.

SOME North American versions have a cable, some don't.

If the RS Media registers as a proper serial port with your computer (which it didn't with mine), you won't actually need to open him up to access the serial port. You can attach a shell to the serial port from a script either using the autoupdate/sd card method, or using a altered bodycon.

I have given you account permissions to edit the dev guides files (that should included the ability to create new ones), this link should show all the existing pages. If you have any problems, drop me a PM.

TikaC
TikaC's picture

Nocturnal - Again, thank you! I haven't explored too much with the USB but thanks to info in this thread, I think I will be able to at least find out what type of setup Nyx actually has when I get to it.

I've updated the CPU and Memory areas. If there's anything inaccurate do feel free to edit. I've updated with information I used from other articles in the documentation (ie. about it having an ARM CPU) and also from reading some experiences of folks in the forums (ie. the memory/SD card) and my own experiences (Memory/SD card). I've included wiki and overview of the ARM processor links in the article (hope that is ok) so folks can learn more about that CPU.

I'll try to add more as I learn more. On my site, next time I update I'll definitely add a link to that documentation so that folks can go there for info.

Tomorrow I have a New Year's Eve online bash to go to early in the night, and tons of stuff to do during the day. I probably won't get to playing around until next week at the earliest (or that following weekend). But if I can find a moment, I'm going to be too curious... :)

ED-209
ED-209's picture

All very good ideas I'm sure.
Heres what I did.

1) connected my RSMEDIA and use it as a storage device.
2)wrote a Shell scrit as a bodycon to pipe data via a file to the BASH shell and piped the output to another file.
3) Wrote to the input file and read the output file on my computer

This worked well enough while I was learning the ins and out of the RSMEDIA. I did this method over Mr Nocturnals bluetooth hack as if I did that I would have killed my "Plastic friend whose fun to be with".

TikaC
TikaC's picture

I'll have to try this! Would you care to share the script as an example? Though I think I know what you were doing, just don't know what "data" you were piping. I don't know if this would run C++ programs, for example.

LOLGeek
LOLGeek's picture

This is all great information for me. Thanks guys!

@nocturnal Could I get a link to your bluetooth hack. That is the first thing I thought off since it has an SD card slot. Thanks :)

TikaC
TikaC's picture

His link is always now in the Development section of the RS Media section of the Byte Bin Robotics Lab (link on right side of this forum). But here's the direct link:

http://www.evosapien.com/robosapien-hack/nocturnal2/node/447

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

*Laughs* Or you could just click "RoboGuide" on the right hand menu (or at the bottom of any of my posts), which will take you directly to my website. Its in the RS Media section along with a other information, and a lot of me babbling.

LOLGeek
LOLGeek's picture

lol that I know I found it finally. I am a robot n00b. But have a lot of computer and software experience :P

TikaC
TikaC's picture

@Nocturnal - Sorry, I wasn't trying to steal your link. Honest! :) I said it that way because it's not linked in your "Other items relating to the RS Media", and not many would scroll down that far to the comments so it's easy to miss. Would be nice to have it linked in that list. :)

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

*Coughs* Accessing the RS Media's serial console *coughs* halfway down *coughs* It's also listed under the taxonomy term bluetooth, which also lists all my delude ramblings related to making it work.

And when in doubt, there is always the site search feature.

TikaC
TikaC's picture

Oh... I thought you were talking about the Developer Documentation I was working on! *chokes in embarassment* My bad! LOL!

BTW, on a side note, I have cracked open the RS Media and found that mine doesn't have a serial ribbon cable attached. It's like you pictured on your site. So... I'll try to find another way in first.

Also, I have done some googling on Virtual Serial Port USB Drivers for Windows. I haven't a clue (yet) if that can be made of any use for anything here. But it's just something I was looking at.

Nocturnal
Nocturnal's picture

I didn't link the developers guide to anything because its incomplete, though it still shows up in the search and a few other places.

Good luck with the drivers, I doubt you will be able to find a suitable one.

TikaC
TikaC's picture

You're right. I have done some poking around online and so far I haven't found anything that would sound like it would logically work.

I'm leaning towards the hack from the link you gave me using the Parallax Prop Plug. But I'm also looking at the rsupdate/rsupdateapp idea too. I have successfully set up the RedHat in VMWare Server 2.x and compiled the program mentioned in that article and have it transferred to the PC, ready to go to the RS Media when I'm ready to try it.

TikaC
TikaC's picture

Ok, Helibot and I were looking more into the USBNet thing. Firstly, it does have ppp, and a lo device which can be brought up. It also has ssh. However, it's not working because I think I need a special USB cable going from the robot's mini USB input to the computers normal-sized USB input. These cables are rare or non-existant. They contain a special chip/circuit to convert serial to USB, etc. It's like a cell phone data cable used for cell phones that you can also use as a modem for your computer. Thing is, none I can find would be compatible because first they have to have the right connectors on each end. And secondly, they have to work with a Motorola MX1ADS usbserial module in linux (ARM/Dragonball CPU).

Since WowWee is refusing to be of any help, the USBNet thing might not even be possible unless a cable can be hacked. Dunno yet. I'm still looking into it.

But FWIW, if you're going to do that, you might as well just do the serial port hack. I just bought me a PropPlug, and have to go get some header pin material and wiring yet, and wait for it all to arrive. Then maybe I can try that method as well.

But I still would love to crack that elusive USBNet thing!